. >>> when things broke down with harry reid, the white house stepped in with the vice president to broker a deal. what's going on here, karen? is the president playing a game of chicken? will the white house change its mind? or is this truly a line in the sand? >> i think it's a real line in the sand. the president has been very consistent and serious from the beginning on this. i think there's a couple of goals. congress can't have it both ways. you have to act responsibly and pay your bills. that's part of why i think the president said if you want me to be in charge, fine, i'll take care of it, but that's not how our government is set up. so i think clearly the president is not going to back back down. the last time we had a shutdown, there's not shut down a piece over here or there. when you shut it down, there are very serious consequences for the american people very immediately when you do that. >> among the things we talked about, the bipartisan policy center also says that the debt ceiling standoff at 2011 cost taxpayers $19 billion in extra interest payments so far, and we didn'